You can each help each other.I've gone from 59 to 65 so far, but maybe what worked for me won't work for you. If they can, pay attention: They don't even know the area as well as your superiors, and you need to spend more time covering your bases. At L63, you also get 50% more bonus (15% target, up from 10%) and 50% more stock ($17K target, up from $11K). For those impatient folks who want to move up every 18 months, watch out. What advice do you have to pass on? Saturday, November 15, 2008. Also, never ascribe to malfeasance what may simply be due to incompetence. This is a discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of policy-violation. I'd like to hear some more experiences from MCS. Then perhaps you're stuck at L62. It's because you were playing catch-up to Apple, and playing Machiavellian games with the media companies instead of working on the issues that your customers were complaining about.Vista is still unreliable, unsecurable, and a massive pain in the ass to use on a daily basis. 1. That clarity may not always result in a promotion on the exact timeline you envision but if you're honest with yourself and have a good manager it really helps.I'm a 13 year Microsoft employee who lived through the bad old days of crappy managers. That’s somewhat off from what the employees’ Google spreadsheet reported, but not wildly so. Success breeds Success: I remember reading an article about an extensive study to determine the best predictor of a stock’s price tomorrow. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company?Maybe because you are so overleveled (maybe not you personally, but MSN as whole), your bosses doesn't want rest of the company to make ruckus about that injustice (I have seen people moving from SDE II in Windows to MSN and getting promotion-on-transfer to SENIOR SDE, and they were not even hard-core devs). Therefore, our need for people who can collaborate across their own team, across disciplines, across org boundaries is greater than ever before. That is the guy to beat. Eng, Go to company page keep in mind mentors are not one size fit's all. You’re hanging onto the bar swing back and forth feeling pretty secure. Thrive on it! Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate. If you’re not displaying them at the current level why would your manager expect that you’ll suddenly start to display them at the next level?2. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" At that time, I understood those questions as being just an excuse that the manager used because he or she didn’t like something in my skills or personality. Here is my question, I don't trust that my manager will fight for me to get me to 63 for the following reasons:- The area I own is not big enough for a 63 but at the same time there is not other areas he can give to me given where we are as a team without taking away from my peers, something he would not want to do unless there is a big problem with a peer not delivering which is not the case.- Innovation - this leaves me with trying to come up with other areas that the team can focus on in addition to current goals to leap frog us and which I can own; so far even though some of my ideas are really good (according to the mgr) the timing is off (ie the team has not reached that level yet where my ideas would be practical to implement given the big ROI)In short I can't trust that this mgr will get me to 63 in a time frame that I would like to see it happen (provided that I nail the qualities you highlight for a 63) which leaves me with the following choices:-Sticking around and continue working on displaying 63 qualities until the above points change, and who knows how long that will take- leave for another team internally (which means a bit of time to establish myself again etc) but at the same it would give me more clear timeline of when I can say I am 100% delivering as a 63.-get external offers (eg from Google), bring it up with the mgr and thereby force a change (more responsibility) since leaving would hurt the team in at least the short term. Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. more often than not it is up to the employee to use the resources, show maturity and commonsense and move up62 -> 63 is difficult and there is a reason behind it. You're in competition with everyone else in your org in your CSP. But the opportunities I see doing X seem to be compelling from a financial and growth standpoint. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. If the answer for you is "No" and you don't like that, well, what are you going to do? If you're not an Absolutely! I breezed to L63 and shortly after to L64 within a year. I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. I'm just going to try and emphasize a few points here:* As mentioned by many folks, it is important to own your career and hence plan you promotion, discuss it with your manager, and most importantly follow up on it. Their self criticism spurs them to improve. I have seen people turn it around. Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. Being constantly re-orged is bad. That is, it’s hard to define, but “I know it when I see it”. Specifically, that is a tendency to try and do everything themselves, taking too much individual accountability as opposed to building a v-team across orgs etc etc.Most managers in Microsoft - in my personal experieince - are competent managers. Everything else is irrelevent or works against your promotion. The larger the team I work on the more I am bombarded with meetings and brown bags so someone can attempt to become the expert on design patterns, code coverage, or feature X. Continue to do so until you've slapped yourself silly to the point that you're not complaining about how other folks must just be connected or political or adept at the finer art of buttock tongue massage. One could easily sack 4000 heads at HQ and R&D nor revenue would take a hit. At Microsoft, the levels start at 59 and go beyond 80. It was then that things ground to a halt. You go along with a good boss/employee relationship then all of a sudden, it's like you killed his first born. If it does, are you demonstrating success at that next level already and do people know about it? Its performance is compromised by your pandering to the RIAA and MPAA. Is that a req. I'm a level 66 dev (architect). Well, what about everyone else? The L65 guys are expected to influence outcomes, strategy and best practices on their entire VP level groups. Is this confirmed? Wouldn’t my manager get annoyed if I try to go over him to get myself know to VP? L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. If only your manager knows you then it is unlikely (at least on paper) that you will move beyond L62. If you are level 64 and above, your relationship with your GM or VP or above.2) Your visibility to the GM or VP. How bad is this? That is a great post Mini. So yes, Mini's list should get you to 63 anywhere. on this one. But above L62 the talent is intense and that is good. I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role and it wasn't that hard. The important thing though is, can you hold things in a room full of other Senior team members. You forgot "never ask for a promotion".The one other thing that helped me go from L59 through >L64 was an absolute dedication to the strongest leaders, one level at a time. Or - are they going to take the easy path and sack people in Europe and Asia? Promotion budgets of 65 and above has been kept intact.Where did you hear this? I just want to grow, and I am aware that it does not translate to a promotion always. Biggest key for me was knowing when to leave a bad management situation and team. Don't be the roadblock. You have to be extremely faithful to your management while at the same time carefuly growing your broad influence to your manager's piers. Salaries posted anonymously by Microsoft employees. For context, I have always been "exceeded" or "high achieved", If you want to dig a bit more around job titles which gives you an idea of someone’s level or the dispersion of a team, remember that the title you see in Outlook is not the real title, it’s just the address book title. Ready? >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".This is better written as "Ask what specific things you are lacking in, which are preventing you from being promoted to the next level".